Well, that isn't good.

"duurtlang" (duurtlang) 08/20/2016 at 06:10 • Filed to: None

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Removed the head of the 30 year old Peugeot 205 GTi (CTi) engine that’s been burning oil. An engine that hadn’t run for many years until 2015. No signs of coolant or a leaking head gasket though.

We’re trying to reuse the head. Getting a decent new one will be a chore and engine swapping an appreciating classic is something I find somewhat questionable. Having said that, apparently the head of a slightly later (early Peugeot 306, late 405 and early Citroën Xantia) should fit with some adjustment and increase power by about 15%. Better availability too.

BvdV - The Dutch Engineer > duurtlang 08/20/2016 at 06:33

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That is not a pretty sight. I hope the corrosion hasn’t gotten too far to be fixable by having it polished/machined.

Also what’s with those plates with numbers on them in the top left corner of the bottom picture?

Leon711 > duurtlang 08/20/2016 at 07:07

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Valve stem seals perhaps?

duurtlang > Leon711 08/20/2016 at 07:11

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My thoughts as well, which is why we replaced them recently. It still smoked due to oil usage, which is why we now removed the head.

deekster_caddy > duurtlang 08/20/2016 at 07:44

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Do those have enough play in the valve lash to just mill your existing head down a little? Would also increase compression a bit.

I have pulled out individual pistons to replace the rings. You use a ridge reamer, take the rod cap off and push the piston and rod up through the top. (Disclosure, never did this to a peugot motor...) while you are in there put in new bearings. If you do them one at a time you can't mix up the rod caps either :)

Jobjoris > duurtlang 08/20/2016 at 07:57

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When’s the smoke, flat out or “gas-los”?

duurtlang > Jobjoris 08/20/2016 at 08:01

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When idling somewhat. When driving behind it I could see a plume of smoke when shifting gear. It smells when idling.

Jobjoris > duurtlang 08/20/2016 at 08:06

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Gaslos duidt normaliter wel op de klepzetels.

duurtlang > Jobjoris 08/20/2016 at 08:57

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Dat zijn de valve stem seals, correct? Recent vervangen, probleem niet opgelost. We dachten nu aan de zuigerveren (piston ring). Het hele ding moet gewoon gereviseerd worden.

SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie > duurtlang 08/20/2016 at 09:04

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I don’t see anything that would render it unusable. Just get it trued at a machine shop, give it a hot tank, and rebuild it.

duurtlang > SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie 08/20/2016 at 09:07

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That’s the planning. Downside to this engine is that it’s letting me down with a problem every time I dive deeper. It having not run from 2007(roughly) to 2015 hasn’t done it any favors.

SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie > duurtlang 08/20/2016 at 09:14

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Yeah, there’s nothing worse for an engine than sitting. At this point, you may as well do the bottom as well just to be safe and to have a basically new engine.

RacinBob > duurtlang 08/20/2016 at 09:56

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You don’t mention how many miles are on it or whether it was previously abused. Also I assume you are not using this for racing. My Thoughts -

1. assume there isn’t apparent wear in the bores as you would mention it. So I rule that out., If there is, you probably have a lot of work and it would be easier to find a good used bottom end.....

2. Since you are this far, I would drop the oil pan, push out the pistons, hone the bores and clean pistons. Assuming the bearings look good, I would install new rings.

3. Take the head to a shop and have them rebuild it. Cut seats and new seals. A shot valve guide can cause oil consumption problem.

That ought to fix it. If it doesn’t fix it, the problem was not in the head or block, it was something like a plugged EGR. So research that while it is apart.

I assume you have googled Peugot GTI burns oil or whatever, regardless, most of the hard work is done. Do these and you should have a good running engine.

Leon711 > duurtlang 08/20/2016 at 10:06

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Hmm. Piston rings?

duurtlang > Leon711 08/20/2016 at 10:49

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That’s what we expect and the reason we removed the head.

duurtlang > RacinBob 08/20/2016 at 10:56

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It has about 220k kilometers, so not overly much in itself but given the people who used to drive these (18 year old wannabe racers) when they were merely used cars it’s not exactly little either. It left the factory in 1986, maybe very early ‘87, so age isn’t in its favor either. The previous owner owned it from the mid 90s until 2015 and he was a teen when he got it. The latter half of his ownership it was parked in a shed, forgotten.

I’ll follow your 1-3.

RacinBob > duurtlang 08/20/2016 at 12:39

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The one thing to pay attention to is mark the pistons, verify their orientation and keep the bearings with the associated rods and locations. There are some people that would change bearings at the slightest scaring. I am not in that camp and have re-used bearings many time with never a failure.

If you do see bad bearing wear, you probably should also then pull the main bearing cap and assess their wear too, it’s usually possible to push the mains out and replace them without pulling the crank.

You will need a ring compressor and a hone to do all this. Before you hone the bores, wrap rags on the crank to protect it. After honing, use break cleaner to wash it all down.

People get all bothered about bearing condition and change them when they really don’t need it. Bearings today are super reliable. I find they rarely fail unless you run out of oil. Do a reasonable job, get the head rebuilt and I think you will be happy with the results.

RacinBob > RacinBob 08/20/2016 at 12:50

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PS for pushing the pistons out at the rod end, or back in with the wrong compressor, I find using the handle end of a 5 pound sledge hammer works great. A couple of taps and out, or in it goes. Also when removing the pistons, I like to have the crank at bottom to split two rods and pull the cap. Then rotate it and use the sledge to pop them out. Ps pay attention to the top bearing, sometime it will stick to the crank and fall out when you don’t expect it.

Jobjoris > duurtlang 08/20/2016 at 14:14

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Inderdaad: maar zuigerveren zou continu blauwe walm geven. Volgens mij.

duurtlang > Jobjoris 08/20/2016 at 14:25

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Dat heeft die ook, enigszins. Je ziet het niet/nauwelijks als je er achter rijdt en er niet geschakeld wordt. Maar als die gewoon stationair loopt zie je het wel en je ruikt het vooral. Maar goed, kop is eraf dus dan direct ook maar een revisie. Ik heb nu alleen dat dilemma tussen origineel houden of een kop van een modernere XU erop voor meer pk. Zou gewoon moeten passen maar (van ‘een’ forum):

“But remember you need to portmatch both manifold and head.. Not an exact match- but enough...”

Jobjoris > duurtlang 08/20/2016 at 15:30

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Voor de CTI toch? Gewoon de originele houden. Meer peekas niet nodig. En “Not an exact match” is waarschuwend genoeg, tenzij je echt weet wat je doet natuurlijk, dat kan ik niet inschatten.

duurtlang > Jobjoris 08/20/2016 at 16:59

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Voor de CTi inderdaad. GTi en CTi zijn motorisch verder gelijk, behalve dan dat de CTi zwaar verwaarloosd was toen ik die kocht en de GTi slechts matig verwaarloosd was.

Jobjoris > duurtlang 08/20/2016 at 17:36

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Dat weet ik maar ik doel op de complete package: de CTI kraakt al behoorlijk bij het betere gooi- en smijt werk, die is toch meer om the cruisen. Geen peekaas nodig. Voor mij dan he.